Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Bonanza Season 5 Episodes
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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by rogell » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:35 pm

For the most part, I like this episode. Many Bonanza episodes and westerns during this time period are demeaning to Native Americans and other Nationalities for the most part. I don't agree with their portrayal but I am aware that when I watch shows from the early to mid 20th century I am going to see anyone ethnic portrayed in a demeaning light. As an African American woman I am very aware of this. As far as being demeaning to women I think it exemplifies the role of men and women in the 19th century (the setting for bonanza). I don't mind Joan's spanking because it reminds me of Jamie's in the Trouble with Jamie episode or Adam's spanking of Margarita. Idk I like the fatherly role that Ben portrays, so I like this one.
As far as wearing heels, I am grateful that I have the choice of wearing what I like but I thought that the making of Joan into a woman was endearing and reminiscent of quite a few episodes of early tv shows and movies. Just my opinion.

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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by Adamant » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:23 pm

I don't particularly like this episode but I don't dislike it either. And like, rogell, the spanking scene doesn't really bother me.
As for the treatment of women, children, Native Americans, Chinese, Blacks or any other minority or group, including Mormons and even Jews and Catholics, that's the way it was in the past and I would rather see that portrayed than anachronistic attitudes. In graduate school, we would be discussing an 18th, 19th century novel and there was always a student who would rant about the treatment of women in the novel. I know about feminist criticism and social criticism but I believe a work must be studied for the setting of the work and Bonanza episodes are to be considered in their time frame. As for what I would do, it doesn't matter nor does my attitude toward corsets, women's high-topped shoes, hats, etc.

What does bother me, speaking of anachronisms, are Joan's false eyelashes and lipstick. I notice that with many female characters on the show and it became worse as the series moved into the late 60's and early 70's. I did a History POD about hairstyles in the 19th century and females over a certain age always wore their hair up; it was a sign of maturity. (Remember in "A Gift of water" that at the end, Linda has her up? It was like boys getting out of knickers and wearing long pants.)

But this episode is interesting because Joan is correct in that Ben is making her into the type of woman he thinks is a perfect woman in many ways. It's no wonder she loves him because they have actually become close and have inside jokes. Heck, he even washes her hair! The have talked so much that he also only has to look at her and she remembers how to behave. But poor Ben has a conflict with staying avuncular and avoiding becoming a lover. And thank goodness Adam is there to toss Ben his own advice; he needed to hear it. And the end, when Joan decides to become the brave woman Ben has made her and goes off to San Francisco, she has followed Adam's advice to leave Ben feeling all will be well. Let's hope it was.
We never really grow up; we just learn how to act in public--anonymous

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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by daisy60 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:16 pm

It's not my favorite episode and could be degrading to women but it did have it's moments. Ben washing her hair [ no bear grease!] was one scene I loved, when Joan wouldn't be quiet-dunk her head in the water! :ha I just looked at the funnier parts and ignored the rest of it. This was based in the late 1800's. :thumbup

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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by Sahra » Sat May 02, 2020 3:11 pm

And no way that shallow bowl of water would have rinsed out all the soapy suds. If you find yourself stuck with having to wash your hair with soap, you have to be prepared for a lot of rinsing, and even then you might end up with sticky residue in your hair.

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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by Julianna » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:21 am

Sahra wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:11 pm
And no way that shallow bowl of water would have rinsed out all the soapy suds. If you find yourself stuck with having to wash your hair with soap, you have to be prepared for a lot of rinsing, and even then you might end up with sticky residue in your hair.
That’s where the vinegar rinse comes in. :laughing

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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by Sahra » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:56 pm

I do it that way when I use soap to wash my hair -- which is when I'm doing it at the sink -- and I need an entire quart of water with several tablespoons of vinegar in it. I use white vinegar, apple cider vinegar is supposed to be good for your hair, but it makes mine greasy.

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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by daisy60 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:47 pm

Sahra wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:56 pm
I do it that way when I use soap to wash my hair -- which is when I'm doing it at the sink -- and I need an entire quart of water with several tablespoons of vinegar in it. I use white vinegar, apple cider vinegar is supposed to be good for your hair, but it makes mine greasy.




Apple cider vinegar is only good for hair with red tones. White distilled vinegar is best to rinse hair. It's actually great for your hair. :yes

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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by flabirder » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:42 pm

I watched this episode today & it was pretty bad. There are a lot of things wrong with it. Ben is taking cattle to the Paiute to help feed them through the winter, but he only brings 2 steers. I'm not sure, but I don't think that 2 steers would feed the 4 Cartwrights & Hop Sing all winter, let alone a tribe of Paiutes. Why on Earth would Ben give a watch to a Paiute chief? Native Americans had no use for things like that back then. I'm sure his pants didn't even have pockets to carry it in. Joan has been taken away from the only life she has ever known & is understandably angry about it. So, instead of giving her time to adjust to her new situation, Ben spanks her because she threw a plate of food at Hoss. In The Spitfire, they had Mrs. Shaughnessy buy clothes and help teach Willow the things she needed to know, but Ben buys Joan's clothes and expects her to walk down the stairs with her shoes unbuttoned. The newspaper article he had her read was out of place. This is season 5 which is supposed to take place betweem 1863 & 1864. The Civil War has been raging for several years already but the article is talking about how the silver in that area will be needed if war starts. I wanted to take that book of etiquette & throw it in the fire. It was like Ben was trying to turn Joan into his idea of the perfect woman. The lipstick and false eyelashes at the end were also wrong. The only women who wore bright lipstick and false eyelashes in the Victorian era worked in saloons. If I had to rate this episode, I'd give it a large UGH. :shrug
Is that all you can think of at a time like this, cake??? (Ben to Hoss in A Knight to Remember.)
Peasants! (Adam in A Knight to Remember.)
Anything to get rid of you. (Adam to Joe in Dead and Gone.)

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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by daisy60 » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:18 am

I look at it as a not the best episode but it had a lot of funny moments in it, like when Joan was eating her mashed potatoes with her hands. Joan yelling "I curse your mother's shadow" before Ben dunks her head into the tub of water. Bad episodes still have great moments in them! :ha

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Re: Episode 156 - LOVE ME NOT

Post by PlatoofthePonderosa » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:45 am

In real life, the way Ben "educates" her would definitely be problematic, but I still enjoy this episode. It's like Pygmalion or My Fair Lady, only she falls for him instead of the reverse. :laughing
It's funny to see poor Ben so out of his depth when she declares her love, and I like the ending, when Joan ultimately handles the situation with grace and care for his feelings.
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