Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by littlejoenice » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:46 pm

Would you believe it? I've had four people now tell me that they saw Marie fall off that silly horse and be carried into the house, where she took her last breath and died. Those people are, in order:

My mother
a retired teacher (friend of the family)
a friend from our church
a friend who works in a Catholic gift shop

They all claim the same thing: that they all seen Marie come riding up to the house, fall off the horse, and then be carried into the house by Ben and laid on the couch, where she died soon after. Is it just me, or is something creepy going on?
Wait a minute, wait a minute. What you're saying is that at your age, you don't know the difference between a girl and a horse?

Ben to Little Joe in "Day of the Dragon."

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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by Adamant » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:27 pm

littlejoenice wrote:
They all claim the same thing: that they all seen Marie come riding up to the house, fall off the horse, and then be carried into the house by Ben and laid on the couch, where she died soon after.
It just illustrates how fallible people's memories are of events. It also shows how powerful narrative is, why writing or storytelling is such a persuasive thing as people read or hear something and create the image in their mind that later serves as a memory. We can convince ourselves of anything.
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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by PJudith » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:08 pm

Yes, there are such things as "false memories". Memories can be influenced by many factors. That's one reason why lawyers do not like to rely on eye witness testimony. They would prefer hard physical evidence.

There was a funny MASH episode which illustrated this point called "Captain Tuttle". Hawkeye and Trapper are loading up supplies for the orphanage and give credit to the fictitious "Captain Tuttle" for his generosity. Their phony story takes on a life of its own and by the end of the episode, everyone in the camp including Frank Burns and Margaret Houlihan "remember" him fondly. They are all sure that they knew Captain Tuttle and talk about what a great guy he was.

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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by elizabeth » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:30 pm

It's easier to create false memories if there is already something there on which to super-impose. Joe being carried into the house easily becomes Marie. I experienced a false memory myself the other day, but can't remember what it was. :laughing
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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by littlejoenice » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:13 pm

There are no false memories here. Look at this interesting bit of script trivia I found concerning this episode on the Ponderosa Scenery website.
Script Trivia: David Dortort originally had scripted Marie's death at the hands of a jealous lover, who pursues her to the Ponderosa from New Orleans and in the climax Ben kills the man. Writer Anthony Lawrence with Dortort changed Marie's death to a horse riding accident in the front yard of the Ponderosa.
This proves that it was written into the script and shown-- at least-- in Canada. The best explanation I've got for the scene not being there now is perhaps Felicia Farr (Marie Cartwright) probably decided to keep that scene in a private collection, so it was cut. I've heard of some actors and actresses buying out certain scenes of a TV or movie they were in if they liked it a lot.
Wait a minute, wait a minute. What you're saying is that at your age, you don't know the difference between a girl and a horse?

Ben to Little Joe in "Day of the Dragon."

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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by patina » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:46 pm

littlejoenice wrote:
Script Trivia: David Dortort originally had scripted Marie's death at the hands of a jealous lover, who pursues her to the Ponderosa from New Orleans and in the climax Ben kills the man. Writer Anthony Lawrence with Dortort changed Marie's death to a horse riding accident in the front yard of the Ponderosa.
This proves that it was written into the script and shown-- at least-- in Canada. The best explanation I've got for the scene not being there now is perhaps Felicia Farr (Marie Cartwright) probably decided to keep that scene in a private collection, so it was cut. I've heard of some actors and actresses buying out certain scenes of a TV or movie they were in if they liked it a lot.
No, it doesn't prove such a scene was filmed. The scene may have only appeared in an initial draft of the script before the script was changed.

David Dortort's original vision for Marie's death (according to the 1959 press release below), was death by horse accident. Perhaps Anthony Lawrence came up with the jealous ex-lover story-line because it was more dramatic but Mr. Dortort over-rode it and said to stick with his original vision. :shrug
press release wrote:Pursued by bitter memories, he traveled South to New Orleans, where he tried his hand at importing and exporting. There he met and lost his heart to a fiery Creole beauty, Marie, whose father had been one of Jean Lafitte's henchmen. Surrounded by suitors, she aroused such feelings of passion and jealousy in Ben that he vowed to have her for himself alone. He wooed and won her in a cyclonic courtship. She bore him a third son, Little Joe, but after a few happy years death struck once more, and Ben's wife lost her life in a horse riding accident at the Ponderosa, which was just freshly built by Ben in Nevada.
Your family and friends who insist they remember a scene of a dying Marie being carried into the Ponderosa ranch house have juxtaposed a scene from a different series with Bonanza. Or have transposed a scene from a different episode of Bonanza with Marie My Love. Perhaps they've juxtaposed Hoss carrying exhausted Sylvia Ann (The Tin Badge) into the house after she falls off Cochise in the Ponderosa's front yard with Marie--both women were blondes.
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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by Adamant » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:22 am

patina wrote:
littlejoenice wrote:
Script Trivia: David Dortort originally had scripted Marie's death at the hands of a jealous lover, who pursues her to the Ponderosa from New Orleans and in the climax Ben kills the man. Writer Anthony Lawrence with Dortort changed Marie's death to a horse riding accident in the front yard of the Ponderosa.
This proves that it was written into the script and shown-- at least-- in Canada. The best explanation I've got for the scene not being there now is perhaps Felicia Farr (Marie Cartwright) probably decided to keep that scene in a private collection, so it was cut. I've heard of some actors and actresses buying out certain scenes of a TV or movie they were in if they liked it a lot.
No, it doesn't prove such a scene was filmed. The scene may have only appeared in an initial draft of the script before the script was changed.
I agree with patina for two simple reasons: if such a scene had been filmed, it would be in Bonanza archival history and...where in the episode would it have been? By the end of the section dealing with Ben and Marie, they are still in N.O. It would have made no sense to insert it there as it would have no place in the narrative structure. This episode is structured as a "frame" story, a larger story (Ben & Marie) within the frame of the story of Joe falling off his horse and then recovering at the end. It's a classic structure as used in "The Canterbury Tales." It's as logical as that. The people who say they remember seeing the scene are mistaken as they may have just imagined it or, as patina suggested, confused it with another.
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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by littlejoenice » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:14 pm

PJudith wrote:
littlejoenice wrote:Also, on another note, as I said before, I'm working on a Bonanza story with Marie... with a few twists! :grin
Well that sounds like an intriguing story. Marie always seemed like a bit of a mystery to me.

As far as her dying after she fell off her horse, that's always been another mystery to me. According to the episode, she was riding up to the house and fell off her horse. Now I know that horse breaking was very dangerous, but falling off your horse while it was walking up to the house?? I can understand a few bruises. And there was Barbara in Right is the Fourth R, she slipped off her horse and broke her arm. A very clumsy woman if you ask me.

But how did Marie die falling off her horse? I doubt if she was galloping up to the front door! Was it supposed to be some freak accident where she fell in a strange way and hit her head? I don't ride horses myself. But from what I have heard, people fall off them a lot when they are learning to ride. Now being thrown is one thing, I just wonder how Marie died from falling off a horse. :shrug
For those of you who are interested, my version of "Marie, My Love," is in the library. :grin
Wait a minute, wait a minute. What you're saying is that at your age, you don't know the difference between a girl and a horse?

Ben to Little Joe in "Day of the Dragon."

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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by Julianna » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:33 pm

I just don't remember seeing a scene where Marie dies during the original run. That being said, doesn't mean it wasn't filmed and discarded, never to air on TV. There are many scenes that were shot and chosen not to be used. In the Dark Gate I read Adam and Delphine were supposed to have kissed but that scene was cut. I also read that Adam drove the stage coach in Cutthroat Junction, but there was an accident and that scene and related material was cut. (that accident was posted in the newspaper) As far as people thinking they saw Marie fall from the horse, perhaps they are thinking of Joe's fall with Ben saying something like" just like Marie". (The power of suggestion) She does ride a horse in Ben's memory at the early part of the episode and almost runs him over!

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Re: Episode 120 - MARIE, MY LOVE

Post by debbiejo » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:08 am

I well recall seeing this episode when it was originally aired in 1963 (and the summer rerun) and Marie's actual fall off a horse and death was never shown.....only talked about by Ben. I have read (might have been in an old Bonanza Gold mag) that they wanted to do another episode with Felica Farr as Marie with her coming to the Ponderosa as Ben's wife, but during the filming of Marie My Love, a technician died right on set due to some heavy smoke or fog being created for a scene and that created negative vibes for Felicia Farr and she didn't want to do a followup episode.

Please anyone jump in and add to this or correct me, but I'm pretty sure I read it in a credible source.

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