Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by patina » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:09 am

PlatoofthePonderosa wrote: I've always felt that Adam's "counseling" scene with Laura Dayton is one of is most inglorious moments. Not only is his advice bad, but it's out of character. The whole idea that nobody is to blame for the bad things that happened in her marriage is more harmful than helpful, and very honestly, I prefer to pretend that he never said the things he says in that scene. I expect more from my wise, understanding Adam.
It's almost as bad as Ben telling Joyce Edwards her husband was just playing a prank when she awoke to find him holding a knife at her throat. :ohmy
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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by Adamant » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:03 pm

I have no problem with Adam's attitude in both "The Savage" and "The Waiting Game." Actually, I see it as realistic as women had to move on after losing a child or some other calamity or lose their mind -- literally. And neither woman had ever before spoken of the traumatic events that marked them. Once they have told Adam, they see that they were not guilty of murder at all -- one was self-defense and the other was akin to a childish belief in sympathetic magic. So, the only logical thing is to let it go and not obsess over it anymore. And it's not as if Adam can suggest they go into therapy or he said, "Snap out of it!"

Besides, in Laura's case, marital rape was not possible, didn't exist as a crime against the wife. I don't understand why viewers think Adam should have done more except maybe say that Laura should have blown Frank's head off while he slept. :shrug From what I've read, Kathy Browne said she and PR worked on that scene until they had it the way they wanted.

But one thing I see these two episodes having in common is that Adam/PR is stilted in both declarations of love. With Laura, while she's reclining on the fainting couch, his voice drops so low you almost have to strain to hear. And with Ruth, well, it's as flat and dry as hard tack.

I just want to know where Ruth found her hairspray. Maybe the Aquanet cans are in that humongous trunk she dragged behind on a travois while she lived with the Indians.
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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by Julianna » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:51 pm

Adamant wrote:
I just want to know where Ruth found her hairspray. Maybe the Aquanet cans are in that humongous trunk she dragged behind on a travois while she lived with the Indians.


:rotfl :lol You really cracked me up!
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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by PlatoofthePonderosa » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:52 pm

Adamant wrote:I have no problem with Adam's attitude in both "The Savage" and "The Waiting Game." Actually, I see it as realistic as women had to move on after losing a child or some other calamity or lose their mind -- literally. And neither woman had ever before spoken of the traumatic events that marked them. Once they have told Adam, they see that they were not guilty of murder at all -- one was self-defense and the other was akin to a childish belief in sympathetic magic. So, the only logical thing is to let it go and not obsess over it anymore. And it's not as if Adam can suggest they go into therapy or he said, "Snap out of it!"
This is a very interesting point, Adamant...that both women felt they were guilty of murder. That changes the way I view the situations.
Adamant wrote:I just want to know where Ruth found her hairspray. Maybe the Aquanet cans are in that humongous trunk she dragged behind on a travois while she lived with the Indians.
:rotfl


And to add a little more to the conversation:
As I've thought about it, my problem with Adam's advice to Laura is that it doesn't deal honestly with the issue. It feels like a wishy-washy cop-out.
Firstly, Frank was morally responsible for the way he treated Laura; Adam seems to say that he was weak, but not wrong. Real healing for the abused doesn't come through erasing the abuser's guilt and responsibility, but through forgiveness, which acknowledges the reality of the wrong but intentionally chooses to reject bitterness.
Secondly, if I was in Laura's position, racked with guilt over having indulged in a murderous hatred toward somebody, I wouldn't want to be told that there was actually nothing wrong with what I'd done. Certainly there is a great deal of false guilt in her (if she really thinks Frank died because of her hatred, that's a problem!) and she needs to know that she's not responsible for his death. Yet she seems to be guilty not just over his death, but over the unmitigated hatred she nursed year after year. Real guilt doesn't need a bandaid ("it wasn't that bad...you weren't actually wrong") but assurance that there is redemption despite the reality of the wrong you've committed.
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Ben: If you're referring to your brother Adam, he left on TIME.

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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by Julianna » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:16 pm

The Savage episode was great to have Pernell featured but a strange episode. I found the music eerie. As someone stated before Ruth was mean/ rough with him. She also seemed older than Adam to me, but checking out Anna's (actress) age she was younger than Pernell. I find that this woman had enough of a story to have to live and survive on her own without the rape/ attack background having to be brought in. How is someone who lived in a man's world with little female contact except in town suppose to know how to deal with that anyway? Back then the writers had a tricky time with the sensors, didn't they? Then we come to real or dream? So hard to tell. As far as Laura goes... she's a whole different case! :yes :scared3

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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by Cartwright fan. » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:48 pm

My problem was she didn't change. She never smiled, as in a for real smile, and her expression was almost always a blank one, accompanied with a nasty tone. Needless to say, I didn't care for her. :no This episode was high on my list at one point for only one reason- Adam. He seemed really "in his element" out there in the woods. I don't know why, but I just felt that way. But other than that, (and the windmills argument), there was no other reason to watch this episode for me.
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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by PJudith » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:21 am

Julianna wrote:
Adamant wrote:
I just want to know where Ruth found her hairspray. Maybe the Aquanet cans are in that humongous trunk she dragged behind on a travois while she lived with the Indians.


:rotfl :lol You really cracked me up!
:laughing Ruth did have great hair for a woman who lived alone in a cave on a mountain. When I watch the episode, I also wonder who cut her bangs! Did she cut them herself with the same razor she gave to Adam when he wanted to shave?

Of course it was TV and the characters usually had to look attractive. Although I wonder why Adam bothered with shaving then. He had bigger problems at that point. From all the photos I've seen of frontiersmen, cowboys, etc., in the 1800's, grooming was not exactly high on their list of priorities. :whistling

But the Cartwrights always WERE the exception. Only they could ride in from a cattle drive looking like they had just came from a Vidal Sassoon salon.
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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by Julianna » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:09 pm

Adamant wrote:

But the Cartwrights always WERE the exception. Only they could ride in from a cattle drive looking like they had just came from a Vidal Sassoon salon.
[/quote][/quote]
Have you seen Larame, Rawhide,Lancer? I could go on. All very spruced up most of the time. I think it was a 60's thing. It wasn't until the 70's Westerns were a bit grittier. (ex. Men from Shiloh) I also look at Bonanza and notice that sometime after Adam left, hairstyles of the women looked more like what was mod or fab at the time and less accurate. Not that PR had a thing to do with it but after he left, I feel the quality of the show went down more and more each year due to rising costs perhaps along with other things. Not that has anything to do with Ruth. They may just didn't pay attention due to how fast the episodes got made. Still funny though. :yes

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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by PJudith » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:40 pm

Julianna wrote:
Adamant wrote:

But the Cartwrights always WERE the exception. Only they could ride in from a cattle drive looking like they had just came from a Vidal Sassoon salon.
[/quote]
Have you seen Larame, Rawhide,Lancer? I could go on. All very spruced up most of the time. I think it was a 60's thing. It wasn't until the 70's Westerns were a bit grittier. (ex. Men from Shiloh) I also look at Bonanza and notice that sometime after Adam left, hairstyles of the women looked more like what was mod or fab at the time and less accurate. Not that PR had a thing to do with it but after he left, I feel the quality of the show went down more and more each year due to rising costs perhaps along with other things. Not that has anything to do with Ruth. They may just didn't pay attention due to how fast the episodes got made. Still funny though. :yes[/quote]

:laughing I didn't watch the shows you mentioned, but yes, I've seen a few minutes of them and I know what you mean. Gunsmoke was regular viewing in our house and Marshall Dillon was a well groomed lawman although Festus looked kinda scruffy. lol

Then there were those handsome Barkley boys! Sure, Jared was a lawyer and had to have a professional appearance. But Nick and Heath looked awful good while working on a ranch. And their mother and sister sported waaay more make-up than women of that day usually wore (okay, women didn't wear any, unless of course they were "fancy ladies" :whistling ) And let's not even start on Audra's skintight pants!

With the Cartwrights, I meant they were always the best groomed on the show. They looked like four male models. The women guest stars on the show also looked like models with their perfect coiffures and make-up, even when they arrived via a long, stagecoach ride. I didn't know stages came equipped with beauty salons.

I think you're right about it being a "60's thing". Realism in regard to how people really looked and dressed in the old west, riding in covered wagons, homesteading, working on farms, etc., was not a priority! :no

The first show which portrayed people's appearance more realistically was LHOP. Caroline Ingalls and the other women wore plain calico dresses and no make-up or elaborate hair styles. Of course the real Charles had a big beard, but did we really want to see Michael Landon cover up that adorable face?
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Re: Episode 44 - THE SAVAGE

Post by A4ever » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:21 am

Maybe it was the way Adam was raised - Ben could have told him as a boy and a young man that once he had 'discussed' and acknowledged the matter, it could be forgotten and "let go" and not brood on it. Men are different from women. They are more practical in their approach to life and its issues. If something has been resolved in their minds it could be seen as over and done with. Many men and Pernell were not like that in real life, but many are (more practical). I do not think Pernell had an option in these scripts, he had to do as told.

At the tree: the Indians had an instruction from the shaman to bring him alive! not to shoot him. What I found interesting was that he was suddenly overcome by weakness or fatigue after killing the first Indian. He was fighting for his life and that of the girl he loved! I thought he would at least put up some more fight than he did with the second Indian.

What would be the idea of a dream, seen in the context of the rest of the story? Maybe I am not imaginative enough.

Did anyone notice that she was the only girl Adam ever said he loved? and wanted to marry? Which again brings me to a character change to fit the story-line. Would the Adam we got to know have left her there and not ever go back to find out what happened, or to find her again? I do not think so. The scriptwriters left a follow-up story on the table here - don't you think?

Anna Lisa was born on March 30, 1933 in Oslo, Norway as Anne Lise Ruud. She came to the US as an Au pair and studied acting there. She was apparently a stage actress and only appeared in a few TV episodes. There is quite a lot of information on her career and the shows she was in on Wikipedia. Not much information on IMDb. She returned to Norway in 1974 and died in Oslo on March 21, 2018.

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